OMG! The Probate Registry has decided to make life Even More FRUSTRATING!
From Wednesday, 14 February 2024, for an indefinite period, the probate enquiry phone line will run from 9 am to 1 pm from Monday to Friday. You can still contact the probate service via webchat from 9 am to 5 pm on all weekdays. (Clearly, they jest – I have never seen it open) or, easier, email co************@*********ov.uk ensuring you include the case number. Only the executor or solicitor can get any information. Applications will continue to be granted as usual and should continue to be submitted via MyHMCTS. You can check the progress and status of your applications by logging into MyHMCTS and checking your case list page (but only of it was submitted on line).BUT there is SOME Good News
All the complaints have sparked a positive reaction, and whilst it probably won’t make a significant impact until maybe June 2924 onwards, it is good to know that MP complaints have started to drive change/PROBATE DELAYS UPDATE
From a reader:- Just to let you know, I put in an FOI request as to how many outstanding cases the Probate Registry has. Here is their answer. Using the grants and submissions monthly data I calculate they have a backlog of around 50,000 cases on top of the ‘normal’ numbers of cases in the system of 30,000 at the end of November 2023. (80,000 cases in all)
- A shocking statistic explains much:
“There are currently fewer than three full-time equivalent registrars and deputies in the probate registry workforce where previously there were 30.”
Probate Quotes Probate Disputes
There are slight signs of improvements in probate delays in that more grants were issued than received towards the end of 2023. Maybe the waiting time before the Registry will even speak to you (assuming you can even get through) won’t need to rise to 22 weeks from its’ current 16 weeks. For the first 13 weeks, applications are often not even looked at. An error by you or them could mean no further review for a mind-numbing 16 months – if you don’t chase. ” The Probate Registry states that they aim to issue Grants of Probate/Letters of Administration within sixteen weeks of submitting the application. However, from experience, this time frame does not start until the Probate Registry issues you with their acknowledgement and reference numbers; this alone is currently taking approximately two months. So six months is perhaps a more realistic expectation. If you are a beneficiary and the estate is being handled by a professional, probate loans might potentially tide you over. GOOD NEWS – well, in a couple of years’ time, it will be good news, as my recommendation to contact MPs seems to have borne fruit with the closing date of submissions to their enquiry already having taken place (22/1/24) – and some results already. 19/1/24 “The UK’s Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice has said that a new management team has been installed in the probate registry as part of a recovery plan to address persistent delays in issuing grants.Mike Freer, a Member of Parliament, recently addressed a question in parliament, highlighting significant improvements in the recruitment, competence, productivity, and efficiency of call handling in the probate service. According to Freer, the current time frame for granting probate, following the submission of all necessary documents, is approximately 12 weeks.
This comes as HMCTS recently reported the continued probate application delays. For the 27,664 grants of probate issued in October, the average timeline from submission to grant was 15.2 weeks – showing a decrease from September, which was 15.4, according to the data. Despite the slight decrease, this is still an increase from the 13.9 weeks recorded in June this year. The data also continues to remain above the 12-month average of 12.5 weeks.”
But you can still complain to your MP.
On to our latest update about the situation:How Long Does Probate Take January 2024?
The Probate Registry Service is currently DIRE; please sign my Petition for improvements and draw it to the attention of your MP: click this link to sign the petition. The petition does not really reflect my anger at the situation, which continues to deteriorate.
The MINIMUM IMPROVEMENT requested is four weekly emailed or texted updates (most of which will currently say, “We haven’t looked at your case yet.”)
A quarter of a million probate applications are made each year, and each delay affects upwards of 6 people, which means that at least one and a half million people are affected every year by the sheer inefficiency and total lack of modern customer service standards. It is NOT the fault of the long-suffering and decimated staff but of Parliament. So please tell your MP. I am looking for personal case studies of the effect this has had on families – please email st***@*********************co.uk with a phone number.URGENT PROBATE REGISTRY PETITION – let’s have proper 20th-century customer service.
Maybe even 21st Century. My petition: The Government should review the work of the probate registry to see what steps can be taken to make it more customer-friendly.- Currently, it takes far too long to receive a grant, meaning bills can’t be paid. (Which is stressful for the family and bad for the economy.)
- Applications need to be acknowledged. (Has it been lost along the way – wait 16 weeks to find out?)
- Applicants need to be updated by email, text or post every 4 weeks.
- Phone calls need to be responded to effectively. (i.e. ANSWERED!)
- There should be a nominated individual or small team dealing with each case.
- Both simple and complex cases should be dealt with far more quickly than is currently the case. (Some cases from mid-2022 are still on hold!)
- Dealing with the probate registry is a further twist of the knife for the already suffering bereaved.
Incidentally, a recent survey showed that just 1% of executors found the process easier than expected, and 99% did not.
Latest News – you could try out the Ministry of Justice’s new contact page – let me know if it works – in the sense of getting a useful response, please!Some cases are on hold for well over a year:
25/10/23 “We have a Probate request in for the passing of my mother last year – it’s past the ’16 week’ period, even though if you really add up the time from inception to now, it’s been over 30 weeks. I rang a few weeks back once I had met the 16-week duration to get an update, but effectively was told, ‘We are not able to give you a status, and we are not sure when we think your case will be reviewed and completed ….. you’ll just have to wait for an email from us’. Now, there is the fact that my mother’s case has been sent to a specialist team, given she lived/died in Spain, which I can accept might add on a little to the timeline but the fact that they said i) they were unable to get any updates from that team and ii) they have a backlog that means they are still only reviewing cases from mid-2023 seems totally unacceptable ….. I’m sure you can understand that I was not overly encouraged by their last comment of ‘it won’t take years to complete, but likely a number of months although we’re not sure how many’.Any thoughts/comments? Our mother’s case is fairly simple from an asset perspective – she left a small house in Spain to my brother and I (inheritance is all dealt with and paper work provided to probate process for their info) and one UK bank account that holds some cash. In total, it all easily comes below the inheritance tax threshold etc, so there’s not much for them to look at etc. Not sure if you can help determine if there’s anything we can do to speed up things.”
Unsurprisingly, my reply was to contact your MP and sign the Petition!
Questions raised: is the 12-month allowance for share losses still long enough, bearing in mind that it may now take longer than that to get a Grant and hence be able to sell shares? Perhaps you would need to make a complaint, following all the procedures, in an attempt to recover your losses?
Perhaps the additional cost incurred by delays, in general, would be recoverable – loss in property value, additional legal fees? Read on for how to make a formal complaint, but always keep your MP informed.
How to Chase Probate – yes, the delays are getting worse!
If you are the executor AND it has been over 16 weeks since your application for probate was sent, you can TRY calling Opening hours seem to vary, as does whether you get a “no one at home” message (sadly common) depending on where you look, but it is my belief it is Monday to Friday 9 to 5. (The Government site says 9-5, but what do they know?! The hours were longer, and Saturday morning was included.) HOWEVER, you probably will just get cut off after a 30-minute delay. The Alternative way of being ignored is at least less time-consuming for the executors: email co************@*********ov.uk, ensuring that you include the full name of the deceased and the Case Number. If you don’t know the case number, include the date of birth and date of death of the deceased as a minimum. Don’t expect a reply, so the next stage is ten days later, to resend the same message with additional notes and with a copy to your MP. MPs need to understand the parlous state of the Probate Registry, which is nothing to do with the staff, who have suffered enough already, so please don’t take it out on them. You can get your MPs contact details here.Probate Loans/ Advance Where to Register a Death Professional Help Needed? Disputes – be very careful IHT
How to make a formal complaint about the Probate Registry Service – but do read on for more useful tips.
(Retired Judges story online). Don’t get too excited – he only got £50!NB Only the executors may chase probate delays.
According to This Is Money, apart from closing most of the Probate Registries, the Justice Department had culled around one-third of the workforce over the last three years, emphasising getting rid of senior staff who are more costly but vastly more experienced. Then of course they introduced a glitchy computer system. Now they have recruited 100 new (and one assumes, green) staff to try to resolve the situation. This is no doubt resulting in more “stops” which massively increase delays as there is (surprise!) a shortage of experienced staff to sort out problems. It must be irritating to find out that your case was “stopped” 15 weeks ago when you eventually get to speak to a human being (if you ever do) once the 16-week purdah period is up. Sorry for the repeat:It is ESSENTIAL to chase probate immediately on reaching 16 weeks after they have been submitted.
to ensure there is no issue that has not been resolved, as the overworked and stressed registry staff struggle with an inadequate computer system and less experienced staff. Sadly, some with not speak to executors if the case has been submitted by a solicitor, and repeated chasing of solicitors to chase the registry can escalate your costs substantially, so my recommendation is to email the registry at co************@*********ov.uk and copy in your MP. Worse follows:It is not unknown for cases to have been totally ignored.
– the electronic equivalent of having fallen down the back of a desk.WARNING: the National Audit Office has discovered that some tasks marked as COMPLETE on the Registries software are NOT, in fact, complete. So maybe ask for a double-check.
Our Advert – Need Professional Help with Probate – or a Dispute?
Probate Disputes/ Arguments
We have discovered that there may be a delay of up to 5 months in making copy Wills and Grants available after probate has been granted. This WILL lead to cases where it is (in theory) too late to contest a Will or Grant within the normal 6-month time limit. It will be at a judge’s discretion whether to accept an out-of-time application, which means more cost and delay. This makes earlier action if there may be a dispute more important, and we have a number of excellent contentious probate specialist firms who can help in such cases at a relatively modest cost. Don’t wait until there is time for the money to be gone!! It still seems to be pretty much a waste of time to phone Registries, except to make payment on their payment-only line. I would send a cheque to save time and at least gain confirmation of receipt when it clears your bank. Always use Recorded or Special Delivery, even though they probably won’t sign for it. We did have one enquiry where it turned out that the grant had been issued months before but, for one reason or another, never turned up in the executors’ post! You can check if a grant has been issued HERE and obtain a copy. Make sure the probate delay is real! We can’t help with probate delays directly, being a private company. Still, if you read on, you will find out what you can do if the probate registry has not issued your Grant of Probate or Letters of Administration within 16 weeks of it being submitted and complete. The clock stops if the Registry asks any further questions until those questions are fully answered. As the proposed fee increases have been dropped, for the moment, things should get back to normal. Please be aware that the majority of grants are printed and posted from bulk printing and that grants can take up to 48 hours to be posted (more over a weekend) after the 16 weeks so please allow up to five days for delivery. Do not commit to an exchange or completion deadline when putting properties on the market to sell without Probate being in place as long probate holdups may not be able to accommodate these until the backlog has cleared. All cases were being processed in date order, a policy that has now been amended to leave those facing longer probate delays worse off. Please note all registries are working to the same time scales, and if need be, work is being shared to ensure that all Registries are issuing around the same speed. Please only contact the Registries about probate holdups if the matter is extremely urgent or if you believe your application was received by the Registry more than 16 weeks ago, and then use the pr*************@*********ov.uk email. Please be aware that the majority of grants are printed and posted from bulk printing and that grants can take up to 48 hours to be posted after the above date and so please allow up to five days for delivery.Being an executor can be tough, so why not check out our FREE guide on what to do after a death? It will download as soon as you click – no contact details needed.
Find out:How do you register a death, find a local funeral director, etc?
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